Leaders' Questions | An Apology for the Milne Family

Ivana Bacik TD

It has become clear, in particular in recent days that the optimal solution to the issue of the national maternity hospital for both the Opposition and the Government is that of full public ownership - freehold ownership, not the conditional ownership represented by leasehold, however long it may be. I ask the Taoiseach again to take into account the clear and overwhelming majority of those of us in the Opposition who wish to see the hospital built on publicly owned land, who are concerned to see €1 billion of State money going into the building of a hospital on what will not ultimately be State-owned land, on land that is going to be held on a conditional ownership basis for the duration of that leasehold. That is the issue on which we have been focusing in the Labour Party, but also all of us across so many Opposition parties. I again ask that that might be taken into account, in particular if the Government is not proposing to contest the motion tonight.

Could I also refer again to the context for the maternity hospital, and to the point so many of us have made in the debates in recent days and weeks, that for far too long the State has invested so much public money into the building of schools and hospitals on land and sites not owned by the State, but rather that are owned in many cases by religious orders or by their proxies or successor companies? That lack of State investment over many years has failed so many people, in particular women and children.

I wish to raise in particular an issue that was brought to light last night on RTÉ's "Prime Time" about the failure of the State to provide adequate services and supports for children with autism. We heard last night in particular about the challenges facing Gillian and Darren Milne, who have fought year after year for their twin sons, Ryan and Kyle, to get access to appropriate places in a special school. Last night was the second time in a number of years that their battle has been covered on "Prime Time".

The Taoiseach raised the case himself on Leaders' Questions nearly three years ago, in September 2019 and the then Taoiseach said the case of the Milne children was under consideration by the Minister for Education. The boys were then eight and now they are 11 and still awaiting an appropriate place. The parents are really struggling, as so many parents are. This is a huge issue across my constituency in Dublin Bay South. Miriam Kenny from Involve Autism was on "Morning Ireland" this morning speaking about the struggles so many parents in Dublin face. This is a countrywide issue and everywhere we go, we hear about the difficulties with accessing places for children with autism.

I am conscious that the Minister of State, Deputy Madigan, did speak on the radio this morning about her new forecasting model, which will enable better long-term planning to ensure there will be adequate places available for children with autism. However, we have not seen any real indication of movement on that, nor did we hear any indication of the extent of the need, the number of children waiting on places. It is very welcome that the Minister of State has said she has had no option but to issue section 37A notices to schools and that she intends to follow up on that, but there is no indication as to when that will be done or how many places it will generate. I ask the Taoiseach for more clarity on what will be done for children in this position.

 An Taoiseach Micheál Martin

I will deal with the issue on which the Deputy has focused in Leaders' Questions. I have dealt enough with the hospital today. I watched that programme. It is not good enough. The State has failed the Milne family, and Ryan and Kyle in particular, in terms of providing a proper, comprehensive education for the children that would be appropriate to their complex needs. They have applied to two schools and been refused.

This morning I spoke to the Minister of State, Deputy Madigan. I also spoke to the recently appointed CEO of the National Council for Special Education and the assistant secretary in the Department of Education. All are possessed with the need that this does not happen again. In the past two years there has been significant expansion of special school places, but new special schools were also created. There are three new schools, two already established and a further one to be established - two in Cork and one in Dublin. Apparently, it is the first time in more than a decade that new special schools have been established.

I apologise to the Milne family on behalf of the Government, because it simply is not good enough. I do not stand over this. There is an absence of proactivity in the system. The people to whom I spoke today are all possessed with getting this right. There are a number of things that we need to do. The Minister of State first of all has been working on expanding capacities within existing special schools, some of which are running out of space. Some are saying that they cannot take additional students. The other action is to create new schools. My own view is that we must bring in the education and training boards, ETBs, more and more to establish new special schools in their areas of jurisdiction. From the State’s perspective, into the future the ETBs will now take a lead in providing special schools. I know that National Council for Special Education, NCSE, will be in touch with the City of Dublin ETB in relation to that. That is what happened last year. Existing organisations have provided over the years and they will continue to do so. However, we need to broaden capacity.

In the immediate short term, the Department and the Minister of State are looking at those existing schools to which applications have been made and whether additional space can be created elsewhere in order to facilitate the children who are without places.

We also need stronger legislation. No longer can it be an option for schools to say, “We are not taking in children with special needs”. Some years ago, the House brought in amendments to section 37A of the Education Act. These are not strong enough in my view. They are too bureaucratic. The Education for Persons with Special Educational Needs, EPSEN, Act needs to be reviewed. The Education (Admission to Schools) Act 2018 needs to be reviewed, in my view, as does the Education Act 1998. There is a collective responsibility on all schools to take children with special needs.

 Ivana Bacik TD

I thank the Taoiseach for his full response. I am sure the apology will be very much welcomed by those who have been so badly failed. The Taoiseach speaks of an absence of proactivity and the need for stronger legislation. Yet clearly, there is a responsibility on the Government to take those proactive steps and to deliver the amendments to legislation that are needed. This is not just about the provision of special schools. It is also about providing adequate supports for children in mainstream schools.

The issue of SNA allocation in particular has been difficult and problematic for many schools. My colleague, Deputy Ó Ríordáin, raised this issue with the Minister of State, Deputy Madigan, last Thursday. He was seeking clarity on when the allocation of special needs assistants will be made. Just as with the section 37A notices, it is simply not good enough for schools, and especially for parents and children, to have to wait until the eleventh hour to hear whether an SNA allocation has been made or if a section 37A notice has been issued. There is a lack of forward planning and a lack of availability, particularly for secondary school places. We are seeing a pinch there for so many parents and children.

The absence of proactivity is the responsibility of the Government. I agree the Taoiseach that there has been an absence of proactivity, but we need to see proactivity from the Government on this, in the interests of children.